Yes Kin you did indeed call my bluff by ringing me. I didn’t answer for 2 reasons – I’m at work and don’t want to embarrass myself having a daft argument with you, and 2 – I DON’T REALLY CARE!!! Leaving that message means you don’t have anything else important to think about other than having a petty conversation with moi. I have a life outside of the NMC, and neither you nor all the new members have a place in that. I’ll do my bit for helping the new members out etc, but only when I can. I’m not going to put myself out in a climbing club which I PAY to be a member of and don’t want to hear you pressing your opinions on me. I go to the committee meetings. You don’t. You put allt he details of your life on here. I don’t. About equal I think.

FYI get your facts straight. I have organised stuff, not to the costa blanca, but to the peak and numerous and about in the county. Not my problem they ain’t on the calendar. They were on the forum through. Look back through and your sure to find them. I’m

Not being any of my business, but I’m sure Phil and Sam didn’t invite everyone and their dog to Kaly because they didn’t want to. Pretty much a private holiday. This isn’t the SAS – do everything as a regiment and all that.

And another thing.

Now if you’ll excuse me I’m out climbing. No I’m not telling you where I’m going. It’s a ‘clique’ members meet as you call it. So enjoy your Friday night dude.

Ben G wrote:

QUOTE:

Kin - I'm not one of your pupils so YOU behave yourself. Don't talk down to me like you always do with everyone else. If you want to say stuff to my face you have my number.

That's to wind you up. I don't look down on people but I challenge their thinking. I respect people but I don't respect their certain attitude and behaviour. Certain behaviours and thinking have to be challenged. Such as the statement you made below.

Ben G wrote:

QUOTE:

If people really want to go climbing then they should - they don't need me to encourage them to do it!

That is...how shall I put it...purely self-fish.

I've already left a voice message on your phone. I'm sure I'll get in touch again to see what you have to say.

My apology to miss out Ben's Peak meet in June. Now where did you go in the County?

Petty argument? It's about the future of our club. We want people who are enthusiastic about running meets, organising activities, programmes. Do you realise the mainstay of any climbing clubs is the meets? If you don't run meets that are varied, friendly, welcoming and helpful, we'll lose members. People don't join a climbing club for politics, guidebook or even the benefit of a hut or discounts in shops though all those are the valid secondary factors.

SkinnyKin wrote:

QUOTE:

Petty argument? It's about the future of our club.

That is a perfect summary Kin.

The NMC is an excellent example of the effort it takes to maintain a club. If it was just about one person, or a group of people with an initial interest then the club would have folded within 8 yrs maybe 10? Why do I suggest that? Well, a club is set up with other people in mind and its a different animal from a group of friends knocking around the doors. Sure friendship groups form, and they're the norm as you would reasonably expect. Clubs need effort from members to help with running the whole thing and the effort that those who are so motivated follows a normal distribution curve. What I'm pointing at here is that it is a natural consequence that the input from some people will wain over time. But, and this is a crucial point, at the same time it is reasonable to anticipate that others' input is growing. Hence the club moves forward and grows rather than folding within the life-span of the committment levels of one or two people. It doesn't take much but it does take conscious effort. As Andy points out, climbing with other people on a meet night is one way of doing just that. But for the bigger picture, that's not enough and, tbh, anyone can do it, even total newbies to the club.

For the bigger picture it needs new people to step up to the plate, and what I'd ask is - are you up to it? Not everyone is, in fact few people are in relative terms. It's got nothing at all to do with "having balls" or "wiping someone's arse"; I've no idea why those were thought to be either in question or required, but there you go.

Right at the very start of this thread I was thinking out aloud about a couple of things. First of all that I think Kin deserves a medal for openly encouraging others, openly saying "this is on offer if you want to take advantage of it". Year in, year out, he does. And very few people do. And I'll tell you this, if Kin had thrown his teddy out of the pram, as quickly as others have so very recently done, because ot the criticism he personally and directly received (a fair chunk of it from me) then we'd have stopped hearing from him at least 5 years ago. Maybe more. Sure he's not perfect but who is? But his heart's in the right place, I'll give him that.

I was also voicing a personal opinion that the new-ish people to the club; newbies who have also had time to get their feet under the table; those who are perhaps net savvy; those who might have put themselves into a position where they are saying "I want to do more for the club", i.e. are on the club's committee; are actually hiding themselves away. The appearance seems to be that some are happy to take without really giving back. Appearances can be deceiving I agree, however I'd suggest that my habeas corpus trumps your caveat emptor



PS anyone want to claim these couple of cute and fluffy teddies we've found lying around?

Can i just point out, this should be put in a forum where prospecitve members cant read it. I havent been out climbing recently and i wondered what was going on in the NMC camp, thinking it might be nice to go out and catch up with everyone, but from the looks of things nothing has changed, just people arguing amognst themselves.

I dont want to get involved in the politics of the club, this is one of the reasons i have gave it a break for a bit, but i think if you are intent on getting more members to join, posting this sort of stuff on the public forum is not a good idea. I would suggest having a members private forums for rants like this as it will easily put people off.

Now please everyone, just enjoy your climbing, might see you out and about soon

With the greatest of respect Jon, there are so many misapprehensions and false impressions given in your post that I'd just like to address them before letting this thread age gracefully.

First of all you are so wrong to imply that the club is "just people arguing amognst themselves". That is the antithesis of the truth and your implication is unwarranted and inappropriate. I also feel its unfortunate that you use the word "poilitics" in your post because it implies intolerance and in-fighting and, again, that is far from reality. We must also agree to differ on how to interpret the content of this thread, I certainly read none of its essence as a rant. I can't help but feel, and this is an entirely personal interpretation, that the dismissiveness inherent in your tone is merely cliched reply rather than considered response.

Cheers,

I still do not understand what Steve and Kin are ranting/complaining/criticising about? What is the problem?

If we are talking about organised calender meets, there is no problem there - the meets list is great and extremely varied this year, and fuller than it has ever been in my time as a member (and for the record, 4 of us in the so called clique I belong to Ben, Phil, Sam and I, are all down as meet leaders for at least one meet each). Whats the problem?

If we are talking about unofficial meets or private-nothing-to-do-with-the-nmc meets, why should we be inviting every man and his dog? I'm a climber first and an nmc member second, and there is nothing wrong with that. I climb most weekends and I train about 4 times a week, should I be inviting every nmc member to come with me every time I go out climbing? I dont think so.

My point (and Ben's) is - if the organised meets arent enough for new members, then all they have to do is organise amongst themselves, like we (me, ben, phil, jd, mark, sam, tomid, colin, laura) did when we were new members (which is actually what the current newer members have been doing) there just isnt a problem here.

And JD is right this thread doesnt look good to new or prospective members.

To any new or prospective members reading this I would like to say that the club is actually very friendly and open to new members and we have an excellent meets list every year, and this forum offers a great opportunity for people to organise climbing outings amongst themselves.

I joined the club around three years ago as a total climbing newbie, and through the organised meets, I got to climb with loads of more experienced (and really good) climbers and I learned loads, and through using this forum I met loads of people and got out climbing loads, and developed freindships/climbing partnerships which continue to this day.

I am fairly active in this club, and as far as I'm aware there really is not a problem with newer members not getting out climbing as much as they'd like, Steves original rant was unwarrented in my opinion and Kins contributions give the illusion that there is some sort of problem with the meets list, but there isnt!

but by the way Kin, Steve is right about one thing - you do deserve praise for your work as a meet organiser and for your efforts with newer and prospective members, well done.

Anyhow, for all those who attended St. Bee's at the weekend, they all had a cracking time. Sorry to those who missed out a brilliant weekend. Am I lucky with the weather? Scorching sunshine as we started climbing. Perfect timing! My back is well burnt but the cool Irish Sea chilled me out. More photos and videos to follow.