Jon T explained to me before the member handbook published that he arranged a meet for 12-13 July at Roaches so I moved my St. Bee's meet to 2 weeks after that, at 26/27 July. Pete didn't get that so I have to announce here.

Plan is climb at St. Bee's Head (all bolted sport routes + plenty ofbouldering from VB - V10) on Saturday and Buckbarrow (traditional) in Wasdale or crags in Borrowdale on Sunday or vice versa depending on weather. I know of a nice campsite at St. Bee's beach, which is nice for BBQ and general playing on the beach, apre climb type things.

Check out their site Seacote Caravan Park

It looks like it's worthwhile to share a tent then have one person tent. 3 or 4 man tents will work out cheap.

I've also got a choice of staying in a farm barn near the crag for about 6 people max. Look on the Multimap link above, there is farm called Tarnflat Hall near North Head. I stayed in their barn a couple of years ago for £6/night/person. It may be £7 or 8 by now. Fairly basic. You have to bring your sleeping bag, coal, cooking gear. Just like camping except putting up a tent. The advantages are you're 15 min walk from the crag and don't have to pay for the £2 parking. Next door neighbour has a posh self catering to hire. Obviously more expensive. Let me know either way, soon rather than later.

For people coming for just the day, you can park at Tarnflat farm for £2/day and just meet us there.

Just get in touch to discuss.

Cheers,
Kin.

I've booked a pitch at the St. Bee's campsite. It looks set to be the hottest weekend of the year so far. Forecast is saying Friday is going to be the hottest. Sahara hot wind moving in from the south progressively throughout the week. Don't I pick some hot dates and ice cool places for my meets?

Give me a ring/text/message if you're interested.

Having a think a couple of times. Saturday may be good to go up to Wasdale to do some mountain routes. Sunday we could go to St. Bee's for a short day.

Credit to you Kin, you're one of the very, very few people around here who is actually going out of their way to think of other people, organise meets and actively approach other people to ask if they're interested rather than go off and do your own thing.


For the people who are reading this but are not sure what I'm on about, think of it this way. You've been in the club two or three years, are active in your climbing, are 'net savvy, almost definitely were welcomed into the NMC stable via the club's web site and encouraged by that same medium, as well as others. You may, even now, be one of the newer memebers of the committee. Yet, I ask you one simple question; what have you done for others and the club itself lately? Absolutely **** all. If you've the spunk for a second question, here's one for you: when was the last time you did something for someone other than yourself?


Sorry for seemingly hijacking your thread Kin, but my thoughts are related to it.

Over the years Kin, you've taken more stick than most for, er, your "take" on some things, your occassional rant (we're all allowed those ). Fair enough, you've not put yourself forward for the committee when you've been invited to - it became an annual event I think; you would express your views about the "establishment", others (me included) would go "aargh, no, not again!" and we'd whine and moan. But one thing is apparent, you're still more than willing to think about more than just yourself.

Cheers Kin. I'm not going to be able to make it on your meet (can't make any at all just now) but I hope you have a great time!

Steve - what the heck are you bleating on about now?? I assume your talking about the likes of myself in your post? There are only a few people who fit the description you just laid out, and I'm one of them.

It may come as a shock to you, but I joined a climbing club. Not a charity. Or a teacher group. If people want to come climbing with me, they can ask me. I don't offer lifts to people as I have only just got a car, and will usually ask others for a lift to save taking 2 cars, crowding out a crag and using loads of fuel. Maybe you should suggest to the committee (or join instead of having these pathetic little rants) and suggest they make it a club rule that newer people should have to take people out climbing. Cos steve says so

You are right about one thing. I did meet people and make some good friends through this club, Andy and Phil in particular. I go out with them as they are interested in the same climbing as me, climbing at a similar level and climb the same days as me. By all means give me a text, email or whatever. Anyone else is welcome to come along - but they should ask me. Its what I did when I first joined. The amount of new people I saw at burnside who blanked me when I tried to start a conversation was daft. So get off your high horse and stop saying things on this forum you don't have the balls to say to peoples faces.

Ben G wrote:

QUOTE:

It may come as a shock to you, but I joined a climbing club. Not a charity. Or a teacher group. If people want to come climbing with me, they can ask me. I don't offer lifts to people as I have only just got a car, and will usually ask others for a lift...Maybe you should suggest to the committee (or join instead of having these pathetic little rants) and suggest they make it a club rule that newer people should have to take people out climbing.

Ben, behave yourself. Was Steve directing the comments on you in particular? It's questionable.

Secondly, it is a climbing club you join. But...a very big BUT. The more experienced members should show the newbies ropes. That's how climbing clubs survive for donkey years. The older generation pass on their skills and knowledge to the next generation.

I can tell you one thing. I was a president of a photography society in Newcastle Uni once. I loved it because I was passionate about photography and I wanted to help the members to enjoy and learn about photography as much as I did. So I dedicated a lot of my time running darkroom induction, iniviting speakers, running photo comps, trips, etc.

I'd do the same with my climbing club. I'd like to see other members (especially the newbies) to enjoy climbing and learn more about it as much as I do if not more. I get the buzz when I see people enjoy doing something that I enjoy. It's not always about me climbing better, getting more famous or making more money out of climbing. Like Jon T, I taught him a lot of the leading skills at the beginning. I'm very happy for him to enjoy climbing and getting much out of it in return like me. So I'm willing to sacrifice my time sometimes to show new people (experienced or not) places or skills. To name a few that I've introduced to the club...Philip (French) and his wife, Clare, Tom (Dr. maths), Piotr (Polish Peter), JD, Laura, David S. All of whom I've picked up on this site or UKC and brought them to NMC meets.

Thirdly, it's very arrogant to say 'if people want to come climbing with you, they should ask you'. How about offering people chances to go climbing with you in the first place and humble yourself?

Fourthly, maybe you should start offering lifts to people since you've got a car now. So they can share fuel cost with you.

Fifthly, Steve wasn't saying newer people should take people out climbing. He was saying new-ish people (a couple of years) and also including the old vets should make an effort to encourage others especially the brand new as well as the not so to go climbing, try different venues, try different types of climbing. Just basically encourage other people to get out and climb.

Ben G wrote:

QUOTE:

.....make some good friends through this club, Andy and Phil in particular. I go out with them as they are interested in the same climbing as me, climbing at a similar level and climb the same days as me. Its what I did when I first joined. The amount of new people I saw at burnside who blanked me when I tried to start a conversation was daft. So get off your high horse and stop saying things on this forum you don't have the balls to say to peoples faces.

Firstly, this is exactly what a clique is. AND NMC is infamous for, if you didn't know. You go climbing with your little group of similar ability and interest is fine. However, you continue to ignore other people unless they ask you. Then, it's a clique. Tom (mentioned above) was once an outsider of the club (I'm just taking him as one of the classic examples how outsiders view us). He was hesitant to join the club even though he'd done loads of climbing under his belt before. He heard about the cliqueness of the club and was uncertain about it. Now, if you don't offer people something of yourself, that's exactly what cliqueness is all about. To name a few, when I was new to the club, Byrn, Lewis, Dimple, Martin C were those who looked out for me and helped me to settle into the club. In fairness, to become a friendly club, we must look out for new people, whether they're experienced climbers or not. It's intimidating as it is to turn up to a meet where you don't know anyone. Even worse, if you're a beginner, people just don't show interest in you or ignore and you have to ask for help. Why can't they be more welcoming?

Secondly, if people blank you out, is it because something you do or say. If not, just move on to the next person.

Lastly, if you want someone to say it to your face, I can arrange a time to say it to your face in front of a lot of people. How's that for balls? I'm a teacher after all. You know! I'm trained for that! When would you like it?

Ben, if the cap fits then wear it.

Take a step back Ben because my rant, and I agree it was, did not have your name on it in particular but what I would ask of anyone who is on any committee, any committee at all; are you in that position for yourself or for the members you are supposed to be representing??? Then I would also more reasonably ask people who have benefitted from the charity of others retrn the favour by showing the same concern to other people they may meet.


On a personal level Ben, am I right in thinking that you are suggesting that your actions now are a reflection of the reception you received at some point in the past? On a purely personal level I know with 100% absolute certainty that is not how you, or anyone, anyone at all has ever been received be me at any time, especially during my time as Secretary.

You seem to be suggesting that you were blanked as a new person when you came along to Burnside and that is your justification for "blanking" others now? Is it a rite of passage that all must endure to be similarly received? Or is it rather a meeting for newcomers with the petulant reaction of the juvenile mind? And please bear in mind that "juvenile" does not imply "young in years", its an attitude of mind that anyone of any age can carry.


I'm not a religious person at all, but I am drawn to thinking of the saying "do unto others as you would have them do to you".










With respect to the main purpose of my post, Kin, in my opinion, deserves recognition for his continued and persistent openess and willingness to encourage and welcome one and all. I certainly have never known him take a stance with the attitude "but they should ask me".

and for that, for what its worth, I wholeheartedly applaud Kin.

and I apologise for taking his thread about a meet off on such a tangent.

Sorry Kin

Steve

SteveO wrote:

QUOTE:
For the people who are reading this but are not sure what I'm on about, think of it this way. You've been in the club two or three years, are active in your climbing, are 'net savvy, almost definitely were welcomed into the NMC stable via the club's web site and encouraged by that same medium, as well as others. You may, even now, be one of the newer memebers of the committee. Yet, I ask you one simple question; what have you done for others and the club itself lately? Absolutely **** all. If you've the spunk for a second question, here's one for you: when was the last time you did something for someone other than yourself?

I'm pretty sure your post does have Bens name on it, and mine, and three others I can think off. If you're saying it doesn't, then who exactly is it you are criticising?

Personally speaking, when I joined the club, I spoke to people and made arrangements to get out climbing with people, I didn't expect anyone to wipe my arse for me. I even arranged trips - evenings, days and weekends, mostly on this forum, and that was before I was part of a 'clique' (I know you refer to us as a 'clique', but I prefer to call it 'a group of friends'.) again I didn't wait for anyone to wipe my arse for me. Actually if I had of waited, I wouldn't have ever got out climbing, I think you are delusional if you think that there was a time in the last few years that older members regularly offered to take new members out climbing, when did that happen??

Also when I used to put posts on the forum offering climbing excursions, only a few people used to reply, and of those, 2 arent actively climbing anymore and the other two are the two I now climb with. Also, these days, when I go out climbing, I usually go on 'specialised' outings, i.e. I have a specific route or type of climbing, or training that I want to accomplish, which doesnt include teaching new members. I save that for club meets, for example, I have been to at least 6 wednesday meets this year (not as many as I'd like) and every time I have climbed with a different person or people, thats what club meets are for, what I do in my own time, at weekends, away from the club is my own business, my life doesnt revolve around the club, but as a committee member and an organiser/leader of past and future club meets, I think I (and Ben) input a lot into this club, I think you are wrong to suggest that we don't.

And anyway, is this an issue anyway, or are you just stiring up trouble for no reason, when has a new member put a post on this forum suggesting or asking for climbing trips recently, and not had a reply???

Cheers Andy. Glad to hear someone else can't stand these 2 dribbling on aswell as me.

Kin - I'm not one of your pupils so YOU behave yourself. Don't talk down to me like you always do with everyone else. If you want to say stuff to my face you have my number. you know I climb every weekend so do it. Just cos you think you can make me look daft on a daft forum doesn't constitute balls mate.

If people really want to go climbing then they should - they don't need me to encourage them to do it!

AndrewC wrote:

QUOTE:
Im pretty sure your post did have Bens name on it, and mine, and three others I can think off.

I didn't start the allegation. Steve it was. But from what I read, he referred to all the older members (members for a few years now at least). He briefly mentioned the 'new, young committee'. I don't think he specifically attacked that group. I think he meant for any existing members who haven't put it any effort to help brand new members to settle in and in passing that young committee may fall into that category.

AndrewC wrote:

QUOTE:

...when I joined the club, I spoke to people and made arrangements to get out climbing with people, I didn't expect anyone to wipe my arse for me.....before I was part of a 'clique' (I know you refer to us as a 'clique', but I prefer to call it 'a group of friends'.) ....I think you are delusional if you think that there was a time in the last few years that older members regularly offered to take new members out climbing, when did that happen??

That's good for you. I know you did offer climbing opportunities for people to join you and you still do these days from time to time. Ben doesn't, does he? He has to be asked! Who would bother to ask him then with that attitude?

No, older members didn't and don't regularly take new members. But some are more willing to offer and make more effort to do so when opportunities arise than others. I guess it's a personality thing. Some people are naturally helpful. Some are not. We all have different gifts.


AndrewC wrote:

QUOTE:

Also when I used to put posts on the forum offering climbing excursions, only a few people used to reply

Loads of requests I put on didn't receive any response like Norway trip, Alpine trip, St. Bee's. What does that mean? People not interested. Maybe true but it's not definitive. There are a host of reasons...timing for the trip (e.g., Sarah, Martina out of the country, Alison and Pete F visiting Liverpool when my St. Bee's trip on but they'd love to come if they were around), not having enough equipment or experience (such as Norway), don't use the forum much (e.g., Jon T, Tim C) or not knowing many people on the trip (bit too scared meeting loads of hairy blokes! Particularly true for some single women), etc. However, new trips/destinations do take some time to mature.

AndrewC wrote:

QUOTE:

...when I go out climbing, I usually go on 'specialised' outings.....which doesnt include teaching new members....I have been to at least 6 wednesday meets this year (not as many as I'd like) and every time I have climbed with a different person or people, thats what club meets are for

Yes, I have my own agendas sometimes, too but can some of them all not be shared on here? For example, I could arrange my own Alpine trip without telling anyone here. But I chose to share my trip to widen people's choices. They could tag along if interesting to them. I've heard Sam and Carole and Phil and Martina are going to Kalymnos in Sept. They chose not to make it as a club trip or to welcome club members to tag along. What's the mindset? I'm not saying it's good or bad. But I can see no reason why other members can't tag along. It could be more fun to have a bigger group of people going.

AndrewC wrote:

QUOTE:

what I do in my own time, at weekends, away from the club is my own business, my life doesnt revolve around the club, but as a committee member and an organiser/leader of past and future club meets, I think I (and Ben) input a lot into this club, I think you are wrong to suggest that we don't.

True, you do whatever in your own time. What Steve was looking for was some more people to organise and lead OFFICIAL meets. Most of what you do at the moment is impromptu evening and weekend blasts. Ben? What about him? I haven't heard anything from him for a long time lately unless I texted him. He should be the one coming forward to organise something. Why am I saying this? Just look back on the calendar on your right menu for this year. Which one did he organise? However, I do remember he organised Costa Blanca. That was 1.5 years ago! (Feb 2007). I don't remember anything else he's organised since then, can you? We need a constant stream of people organising trips and they have to come forward and commit themselves. If for any reasons the past leaders are not able to organise trips, we need to find some new meet leaders. You can't leave the club calendar without meet leaders or without meets. That's what's happening this year on a number of occasions.

AndrewC wrote:

QUOTE:


Is this an issue anyway, or are you just stiring up trouble for no reason, when has a new member put a post on this forum suggesting or asking for climbing trips recently, and not had a reply???

It is an issue because we're lacking people to lead meets. Have a look at the climb meets section of this forum. How many times Peter B had to take over the meet leader responsibility this year and no-one volunteered to help? And you can't see that? The issue is not only focusing on brand new members but as the whole club. Fewer and fewer people would come forward to organise meets. Committee members should be setting example to actively run and organise the club activities. Any other members helping out is just a bonus. That's Steve's main concern. Get it, mate?

Finally, let me lay out an exemplary example for all aspirant meet leaders (I wouldn't use myself as it'd be too subjective). This is taken from some comments made by Jon T and my thoughts. He took an example of John Mountain as a meet leader when Jon and I were both newish members attending a meet in Wales some years ago.

Jon described John M was very helpful before the intended meet. He gave useful advice on accommodation, equipment needed for the hut, the kind of climbing on offer around the area, people to share lift (all sent out by e-mail or contacted by phone prior to the weekend) [b]and/b] also during the meet, he made sure we had someone to climb with, in similar ability or someone more experienced to take us. Absolutely sterling job he did as a meet leader. You just cannot flaw him for anything.

Can anyone live up to that?